Posts by Doubting Bro

83

If you felt/feel that you had/have good, close "friends" in the org, how did/does it feel to just give them up?

by Crisis of Conscience in

jw
friends

this is my biggest dilema.

although mentally i really feel i could walk away from the org right now, i still have genuine love for the people i have come to know over the years.

i love people!.

Doubting Bro

MLE - I totally understand where you're coming from. I was always worried about getting too close to other JWs for the same reasons. It stretches into adulthood as well. I agree there is no true love in the org.

You know, if you do transfer out to the other hall, that would be an easy way to decline reappointment. I remember when I moved to another area, I was still an elder but held out on reappointment until the CO came. That gave me a few months to really think about it and the only reason I actually agreed to be reappointed was so I could go through the congo files to make sure there were no pedos there. I really wanted to get one tossed into jail but that hall didn't sweep one of those perves under the carpet. I wish I had never accepted reappointment because it made it slightly worse for me to get involved in the politics of another area.

Don't be so sure that the old folks won't have drama. They will have their psychos and the like just like the congo you're current in. That's the way the WTS rolls. I haven't seen one well adjusted congo yet and I've lived in several parts of the country and have you by a few years.

45

To all those who who bang on elders who post here

by elderelite in

jw
friends

and had the audacity and hypocritical nerve to suggest that no elder could provide anything to this forum that couldn't be gotten else where, i started a thread a little over a day ago with a link that was entittled "ks 2010".

that link has been clicked on 1,156 times in a little over 24 hours.

thats almost once a minute every minute non stop.

Doubting Bro

EE - when I first started here, I had some critical comments directed at me. I wasn't even going to say that I had a "position" but I felt it was important to mention it because I thought it would show lurkers that even those that they thought were very loyal to the WTS were having doubts and that it would somehow make them feel less alone.

I would say that since most of us haven't met IRL that none of the comments can really be personal. Folks that are critical or call folks names aren't really angry at you personally. Even if they were, would you really care? However, they are angry at the WTS. They're angry at the lies they've been told, the blind loyalty they showed, maybe the molester that was protected, the feelings of standing out as different from almost everyone they know.

They direct that anger towards those that may hold positions with the WTS because (like it or not), they do represent the WTS publically. I guess all JWs do but especially those "taking the lead". Even if they don't believe it.

I do think those that leak documents and other info play an important role of pulling the curtain back and revealing Oz. I hope you post the new book, notes on the KM School and any other documents that you can safely post. It may not help those that have left and have no family, but it is helpful for the rest.

39

The offical Screaming thread for those 'still in' or with family 'still in'

by pirata in

jw
friends

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

that feels better.

thanks all for listening to things that i cannot say to my family or 'friends', the very people that i should be able to talk about anything about, without fear of being labelled as an apostate and shunned like an amharet..

Doubting Bro

Do you hear me? by Crystal Mathis

Do you hear my cries at night?
Do you hear my wimpers through the day?
Do you hear my heart screaming of pain?

Can't you see, my world is gray?
Can't you understand I am no longer happy?
Can you try to feel my pain?

I scream, but no one hears me.
I cry but no one sees me.
I hurt, but no one can feel my pain.

Don't you hear my words?
Can't you hear my screams?
Please, I pray for you to hear me...
just this once, please hear my cries!

40

The Society, having lost its younger generation, now appears to be doing its darndest to lose the older ones as well

by sir82 in

jw
friends

from all the "annual general meeting" notes floating around, one quotation stands out in particular:.

many older ones already are telling the younger ones how they regretted not getting an education, pursuing a lucrative career, saving up money or not having a retirement plan.

the sad truth is that such ones are like the murmurers of israel when coming out of egypt.. what does this remark tell us?.

Doubting Bro

same thing with my parents. They got baptized in the early 70s and swore that I wouldn't see the first grade. As some of their grandchildren are graduating high school, my dad is retired but on a very fixed income. His advice to me is to plan like the system will last forever. If it doesn't, no harm. If it does, then at least I'll be able to retire and not be a burden. It's really sad to see these folks facing their own mortality after thinking for so long that they would never die.

I agree with you Sir. If they start to lose the 50+ "generation", the cash flow issues they have now will be nothing.

28

More AGM News !!!!!

by yknot in

more agm news continues to trickle in..... .

as a disclaimer i feel the need to draw attention to the fact that all information was initiated by faithful/believing jws so if any lurkers thinks they recognize nuances of an email(s) they might have similarly received.... the original bro/sis holds no responsibility for my actions of reiteration..... .

anywho lets get on it........ .

Doubting Bro

Couple of comments:

France- The ECHR has agreed to consider the WTS appeal over the 60% taxing of contributions. If we are able to prevail it will have a great impact on our status and sit as precedent for any future cases in Europe.

Agreed. And if they lose, the same holds true. This ruling could end up being as significant an event in the WTS history as the Swaggart case here in the US which resulted in them dropping charging for literature. The decision to not set up a for profit entity to sell their literature was one of the biggest business blunders ever by the WTS. See what happens when you don't pay "Caesar's things to Caesar"?

Example: An adult child who lives outside of the household is DFd? While the term ‘Necessary family business’ is a term familiar with those in this circumstance; the GB wants to stress there is no need to push this to the extreme! ….Basically to shorten the example and to get to the heart of the matter….. there must be incentive for the DFd person to want to return. Parents are encouraged to give a little but to leave the DFd child desiring for more while promoting their actions as motivate by their love for Jah. The end result is hope that the DFd child in wanting full access to the abundant love of his parents willl also begin to see his losses in not having a relationship with Jehovah and seek reinstatement.

I love these examples on how to practically apply the Talmud er WT directives. They do this all the time at KM school and at CO meetings with elders. Anyway, this is a pretty interesting development. First, it shows how the WT uses the threat of df'ing as a way to keep the flock in line. Second, it shows how manipulative the WTS is. Third, it clearly shows that the reason for df'ing is not to "keep the congregation clean" but rather to punish those who disagree with their directives. If they were really concerned that a df'ed person would be a bad influence on any JW and cause them to lose their faith, then why the exemption? I hate to be a cynic (not really) but does this potentially lighting of the shunning policy have anything to do with the big dollar French case?? Maybe or maybe now that Jacarz is gone, they're going to lighten up a bit.

This slight shift in the df'ing policy will end up being in a study article I'm sure with some more details. But, I think this is good news for those whose families haven't been displaying "natural affection" and if it eases the pain of shunning, I think that's a good thing.

Thanks Ynot!! Really appreciate all your efforts.

I love these examples on how to practically apply the Talmud er WT directives. They do this all the time at KM school and at CO meetings with elders. Anyway, this is a pretty interesting development. First, it shows how the WT uses the threat of df'ing as a way to keep the flock in line. Second, it shows how manipulative the WTS is. Third, it clearly shows that the reason for df'ing is not to "keep the congregation clean" but rather to punish those who disagree with their directives. If they were really concerned that a df'ed person would be a bad influence on any JW and cause them to lose their faith, then why the exemption? I hate to be a cynic (not really) but does this potentially lighting of the shunning policy have anything to do with the big dollar French case?? Maybe or maybe now that Jacarz is gone, they're going to lighten up a bit.

This slight shift in the df'ing policy will end up being in a study article I'm sure with some more details. But, I think this is good news for those whose families haven't been displaying "natural affection" and if it eases the pain of shunning, I think that's a good thing.

Thanks Ynot!! Really appreciate all your efforts.

88

a reasonable question to any elder/members

by bigmac in

jw
friends

the question is this;.

because you are members of this apostate site, yet are still willing to serve the wt soc as elders,.

do you still hope to .

Doubting Bro

LOL @ oldlightnewshite (great name)! Dude, they have those programs so tightly controlled that if you tried to pull a Little Toe (search his name here and if the link is still active you can actually hear his last talk which was FANTASTIC), they would cut the mike immediately and a standby would be available to finish. It would be pretty awesome though.

I remember when I was a young kid (early 80s), someone shouted at the end of a CA something about the WTS being a cult and a lie. Everyone was in shock. I think he actually interupted the prayer if my memory serves. Needless to say, he was "escorted" out. This must have been in the early 80s because I remember folks picketing outside the building (on a city street) and handing out tracts. I remember my dad almost hitting one person because they jammed a tract into my hands (I was like 8 to 10 at the time).

88

a reasonable question to any elder/members

by bigmac in

jw
friends

the question is this;.

because you are members of this apostate site, yet are still willing to serve the wt soc as elders,.

do you still hope to .

Doubting Bro

While I don't fall into this category, I did at one time and so I can understand the position a little. A couple of points:

1 - I saw no reason (and still don't) to be honest with the WTS given how dishonest that organization has been with me.

2 - Unless the person gave away a ton of personal information, the likelihood of being outed is very low. I highly doubt the elders/ms that post are telling their families about that activity. Plausible deniability is the key for any stuck in JW.

3 - Many elders avoid JCs. I know when I started having doubts (pre this site) I made sure that I wasn't on any JCs. Easy to do.

4 - It may be hypocritical if the person involved is enforcing the WTS's rules. Ultimately, it bothered me that others in the congregation were hearing me give talks and comments that I simply didn't believe. I couldn't care less what I told the WTS management (other elders, COs, etc).

5 - The inside information posts drive the WTS batty!! Doesn't that have value alone? How many meetings in Bethel have they had about stopping leaks? I'll bet those leaks chew up time on a regular basis. Just knowing that someone is getting upset about their precious info being leaked makes my day. Also, those with family in but who are being shunned will be able to understand the changes and look for opportunities to perhaps reconnect. Just because it doesn't have value to you doesn't necessarily make it valueless.

6 - It's not easy to just resign without raising huge questions. It takes time to lay the ground work if you want to just fade into the background. Even when you resign, sometimes the BOE won't accept your resignation (look at OTWO's experience).

7 - It's not even middle management for the WT, it's low management. Honestly, the WTS looks at their elders with distain.

8 - As for the original question, my guess would be that they 1) no longer fear the big A and 2) likely have serious doubts about any resurrection.

I can tell you this much, I'm not sure if there is a God but I am sure that no one will be judged based on their response to the WT. If we indeed answer to a higher power, it will be on the basis of how we treat others and whether we lived a good life. It will not be because of any stupid religion (in my opinion).

28

My story

by Dumi in

jw
friends

hi guys, i joined the forum 2 days ago & i thought i should formally introduce myself to all you fellow apostates and while at it regail you with my story which may be familiar to some/all of you.. i was born into a jw family.

my father converted from traditionalist (south africa) while my mother is a second generation jw.

surfice to say i grew up (together with my three siblings) in the same jw drill... meetings, field ministry and secular school and thats about it.

Doubting Bro

Welcome. Look forward to your contributions.

84

DF'd and struggling....LONG POST........my story.

by confuzzled777 in

how do i make a long story short?

i am fully aware that if anyone in my area were to read this that they will know who i am.

i was disfellowshipped on january 28th 2010 after an "interview" about an evening of bowling with friends and family back in november 2009. i was among 4 who were disfellowshipped and 6 who were publicly reproved.

Doubting Bro

wow confuzzled. I'm so sorry you and your husband were treated this way. It seems that you've figured out that they were going to make an example of someone and chose you. I've heard of party situations from time to time but inevitability it includes an unmarried couple hooking up. Short of that, I've only seen a slap on the wrist or a be more careful next time.

Clearly an ambush. Those men should be ashamed of the way they treated you but I'll bet they're not.

While it hurts now and will for awhile, you can look at this as an opportunity. Research the org, www.jwfacts.com is an excellent site that presents just the facts. Then, decide if its worth it to come back.

Welcome to the board. It's a great place to vent.

25

Are they really closing down branches in Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guyana ?

by aligot ripounsous in

i just got this information on the phone, from a local jw family member : the society is definitely downsizing its worldwide institutional network and they intend to disband their bethels in the three french overseas departements of martinique, guadeloupe an french guyana.

i've not heard about the fourth departement la reunion in the indian ocean but i gather that they might go the same way there.. i wonder , what about the decent amount of money i donated to them in order to build one of those bethels , is it bound to be siphoned off to brooklyn ?

objection, that was not included in the deal.

Doubting Bro

BTW - The US version of the KM for November announced that Hawaii will not be a separate branch any longer and will be incorporated into the US branch (where it should have been anyway). I think last year Alaska and the Turks and Caicos islands were also folded into the US branch.

This is purely a business move and quite frankly one that should have been done long ago. You don't need branch offices in every country to run a publishing business, er, I mean religion.

They overexpanded into a declining market. Look at Barnes and Nobles who did the same thing.